Session 7 Notes

Document Actions

— filed under: Socrates, Plato, Phaedrus, Lysias

Notes for David O'Connor's 1/31/07 lecture on Plato's Phaedrus, Lysias & Socrates’ first speech

Phaedrus, Lysias & Socrates’ first speech

I. Lysias’ speech

A. Why a nonlover is better than a lover

B. Phaedrus’ relationship to Lysias’ speech: clever indirection

II. Socrates’ first speech: a better version of Lysias’ speech

A. The speaker is secretly in love with the beloved

Socrates says, “There once was a boy, a youth rather, and he was very beautiful, and had very many lovers. One of them was wily and had persuaded him that he was not in love, though he loved the lad no less than the others. And once in pressing his suit to him, he tried to persuade him that he ought to give his favors to a man who did not love him rather than to one who did.” (Plato, Phaedrus, trans. A. Nehamas & P. Woodruff, Indianapolis: Hackett, 1995: 237b)

B. Philosophy and erotic love

III. The role of self-knowledge in erotic love

Phaedrus: “Do you think that a mere dilettante like me could recite from memory in a manner worthy of him a speech that Lysias, the best of our writers, took such time and trouble to compose? Far from it—though actually I would rather be able to do that than come into a large fortune!”
Socrates: “Oh, Phaedrus, if I don’t know my Phaedrus I must be forgetting who I am myself.” (Phaedrus 228a)

Copyright 2009, by the Contributing Authors. Cite/attribute Resource. O\'Connor, D. (2007, July 03). Session 7 Notes. Retrieved November 23, 2009, from Notre Dame OpenCourseWare Web site: http://ocw.nd.edu/philosophy/ancient-wisdom-modern-love/lecture-notes/session-7-notes. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License.

Sections

Personal tools

Session 7 Notes

Document Actions

Phaedrus, Lysias & Socrates’ first speech

Course Contents Ancient Wisdom and Modern Love Home About the Professor Syllabus Calendar Readings Lectures Discussion Questions Writing Assignments Exams	Personal tools Log in Register You are here: Home → Philosophy → Ancient Wisdom and Modern Love → Lecture Notes → Session 7 Notes
	Info Session 7 Notes Document Actions — filed under: Socrates, Plato, Phaedrus, Lysias Notes for David O'Connor's 1/31/07 lecture on Plato's Phaedrus, Lysias & Socrates’ first speech Phaedrus, Lysias & Socrates’ first speech I. Lysias’ speech A. Why a nonlover is better than a lover B. Phaedrus’ relationship to Lysias’ speech: clever indirection II. Socrates’ first speech: a better version of Lysias’ speech A. The speaker is secretly in love with the beloved Socrates says, “There once was a boy, a youth rather, and he was very beautiful, and had very many lovers. One of them was wily and had persuaded him that he was not in love, though he loved the lad no less than the others. And once in pressing his suit to him, he tried to persuade him that he ought to give his favors to a man who did not love him rather than to one who did.” (Plato, Phaedrus, trans. A. Nehamas & P. Woodruff, Indianapolis: Hackett, 1995: 237b) B. Philosophy and erotic love III. The role of self-knowledge in erotic love Phaedrus: “Do you think that a mere dilettante like me could recite from memory in a manner worthy of him a speech that Lysias, the best of our writers, took such time and trouble to compose? Far from it—though actually I would rather be able to do that than come into a large fortune!” Socrates: “Oh, Phaedrus, if I don’t know my Phaedrus I must be forgetting who I am myself.” (Phaedrus 228a) Copyright 2009, by the Contributing Authors. Cite/attribute Resource. O\'Connor, D. (2007, July 03). Session 7 Notes. Retrieved November 23, 2009, from Notre Dame OpenCourseWare Web site: http://ocw.nd.edu/philosophy/ancient-wisdom-modern-love/lecture-notes/session-7-notes. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License.